Curse

Inde · Aug 12, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

In reference to the online store, only time will tell. I have my own reservations about the direction they may be taking on this. I like what they have introduced with character slots, it's a great feature and a great idea. I support it... but I'm sure many of us can see that all that's needed to head down a slippery slope is the first step

But as I said, companies need to make tough choices and decisions in order to keep their products in the market and making profit. Right now it's all a wait-and-see approach. Too early to come out against a decision as we don't know the end result. And too early to fully support a decision where you can't see the entire picture.

Thallandor · Aug 12, 2006, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Anet essentially has 2 development teams. 1 development team works on chapters 1,3,5, etc. While the other works on 2,4,6, etc. This enables each stand-alone/expansion to be worked on for 1 year even though they are released evey 6 months.

I know this concept well since it first poped up in the forums but my real question is "IF" this method is making quality games that is worth buying.

With Factions though others may disagree i have to say NO and Nightfall awaits to be seen.

In a crude way, i am merely indirectly indicating that Anet should buck up and think of how to make their game more fun than thinking about how to fill their pockets.

Doing nothing about Factions as it is with a new "expansion" on the way soon to spend their time on leaves me worried about the quality of the content Anet feels is sufficient to market as a finished product.

The phase Quality over Quantity always hold true irregularless of how GW is marketed as a free to play online game with the need to keep selling new titles to keep afloat.

It is not to be made into an excuse as some of us here have you accept as a fact of life.

Crotalus · Aug 12, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Auction House? Reconnects? These have all been asked for by the community way before character slots and an online store. It is well over a year now since they were first brought up by the community to Anet. I am sure you agree that these features would improve gameplay.

However, Anet does not see immediate income from these compared to character slots or an online store. Unfortunately, i will not be buying Chapter 3 unless they have these features in by the time of release. If i came up with as many excuses as Anet did for not having them in for so long at my place of employment then i know i would be looking for a new job. I am applying that same rational to Anet. As i stated before, it has been well over a year to get these features in and we are still waiting while character slots were put in quite fast, comparably.

Consequently, i partially agree with AJ. While they need to 'sell-out' to stay afloat, they are taking the easy road to acccomplish it. In the end, it is the customer who suffers with a game that could have been better.

Stockholm · Aug 12, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thallandor

In a crude way, i am merely indirectly indicating that Anet should buck up and think of how to make their game more fun than thinking about how to fill their pockets.

Unfortunatly they now have a corporate comptroller telling them what financial goals they have to fill or else.....
A multibillion $ corporation like NC-Soft will not let a franchise like GW run without turning a profit, calculated by a numbers cruncher that never seen a video game.

Thallandor · Aug 12, 2006, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

Unfortunatly they now have a corporate comptroller telling them what financial goals they have to fill or else.....
A multibillion $ corporation like NC-Soft will not let a franchise like GW run without turning a profit, calculated by a numbers cruncher that never seen a video game.

If Nightfall and beyond proves you correct, I will have to start my own internet Campaign to boycott all NCsoft products and spread the word of mouth.

I am sure NCsoft with their billions dont need any more profits from their sub standard games and that Number cruncher person who never played a video game can find another accounting job somewhere else.

Class action lawsuit for lineage anyone?:
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ft_classaction

To all those complaining about being banned unfairly:
http://www.player2player.net/index.p...e=print&sid=91

Sereng Amaranth · Aug 12, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

I'm going to submit a new word for your interests.

UNGRATEFUL

un·grate·ful Pronunciation Key (n-grtfl)
adj.

1. Not feeling or exhibiting gratitude, thanks, or appreciation.
2. Not agreeable or pleasant; repellent.

Scavenger Rage · Aug 12, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

People never happy? Companies trying to make money? Earth spinning around the sun? OMG!!! I think we are on the real world!!! How can that be?!?! And more....I also believe we are all HUMANS!!! HOW?!?!?!?!

That might seem mundane for most of people, but for me, it seems to get more and more revolutionary everyday, I mean, watching opinions of people all around the world makes me believe that we actually live on the "happy land" were we pay for stuff with smiles and eat air for a living. SO imagine my face when I see other people making decisions based on world economy (WTF?!) and basics needs of the human physiology?! It’s like an epiphany EVERY SINGLE DAY!!!

Come on people, smart discussions are ONLY smart when they talk about subjects that actually make sense, talking about world abroad companies making money and people being unhappy is just sad and stupid, and off course, TOTALY pointless... we could argue about those topics for decades and getting to the same tad conclusion we had before the discussion started.

-------------------------------

Ok... I got that out of my chest, back to the constructive part of this post now.

1. Anet is NOT sold out. Commentaries about them trying to make money without putting on monthly fees aren’t going anywhere.

2. People being childish inside the game community makes sense once you analyze WHY they are not on other online games like WOW or Lineage 2...they are child, they don’t work, they don’t have credit cards and simply they CANT afford to play any other games, that makes them compelled to come to Guild Wars, and present to us a majority of kids playing the game, that’s also not new.

3. I am not even going to start about people unhappy with everything, there will be ALWAYS some one that would prefer we going on the opposite direction that we are... if we had to pay monthly they would scream they wanted a free game, the same goes now, we HAVE a free online game, and people are still screaming that the system is not OK. Learn to live with it, or simply go live some were else, nothing that we say would make them happy.

And just to clarify, if depended solo on me, this thread would simply be closed with no further notice, the points we are discussing about are just pointless and we could extend this for more 10 – 20 pages and still wouldn’t be able to get any CONSTRUCTIVE ideas out of here.

Later.

actionjack · Aug 12, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

I'm going to submit a new word for your interests.

UNGRATEFUL

un·grate·ful Pronunciation Key (n-grtfl)
adj.

1. Not feeling or exhibiting gratitude, thanks, or appreciation.
2. Not agreeable or pleasant; repellent.

Me and A.net exisit in a supplier / customer relationship. They provide the product, I purchas them as I see fit. I don't see anything wrong to voice a concern on possible wraping of the products orginal direction that fell to meet what was promised when I first purchas the product. In this case, I am just taking more of a role of the beggar who is crying "Beware the Ides of March!"

Right now it seem fine, but as said, its a step taken. There is a line between where Devs are gamer-by-heart who want to make us player happy, with the profit as a side reward and means of funding the fun (such good pun), as to Devs who are concerning more about profit margin, monthly earning, shareholder pleasing, who would shape the game not for the more enjoyment of players, but to put more into their pocket. The fun, or the illusion of it, becomes just a marketing lure. Will this line be cross? Has it already been cross? Hard to say, but just like to paint a dark picture of it, as an warring.

Players/Customer should be more aware, and not just follow and be lead around.

Loviatar · Aug 12, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Auction House? Reconnects? These have all been asked for by the community way before character slots and an online store. It is well over a year now since they were first brought up by the community to Anet. I am sure you agree that these features would improve gameplay.

However, Anet does not see immediate income from these compared to character slots or an online store. Unfortunately, i will not be buying Chapter 3 unless they have these features in by the time of release. .

good bye and good riddence.

if you honestly cant accept that there are magnitudes (yes plural meaning more than 1) of difficulty between adding a slot and making a secure reconnect feature or a secure/reliable auction house you are hopeless.

as a side note how many months did it take them for the slots when we were begging to give them more money?

if profit were the motive they would have had those slots ready for sale at the first yell for them.

actionjack · Aug 12, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if you honestly cant accept that there are magnitudes (yes plural meaning more than 1) of difficulty between adding a slot and making a secure reconnect feature or a secure/reliable auction house you are hopeless.

as a side note how many months did it take them for the slots when we were begging to give them more money?

if profit were the motive they would have had those slots ready for sale at the first yell for them.

Character slot take long time to be added (as you said, they are of magnitude of difficulty to be added), which suggest why they are only added now. Of couse, won't you agree that by adding them, they are also taking away resouce for adding other features like an auction house?

And also note, I speak of a "shift" in their pratice. You need to be a non-sell out first to sell out. Therefore, the priorty of Character slot store supports that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Loviatar below:

Auction house was wanted long time befoe, in the earlier day of game, and louder than character slot. Same apply to storage. Yet got added faster than anything. Also that still not respond to how I say they are "Shifting". (purchasble character slot was never on the original promise of the game, nor did they say such on their mission statement)

Not saying Chracter slot is bad and that they shouldn't be added... but just using it to support the point of the possible shift.

VVVVVVVVVVV

Loviatar · Aug 12, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Of couse, won't you agree that by adding them, they are also taking away resouce for adding other features like an auction house?

.

no for the simple reason finding out how to add something to an account will also help them understand better how to do the reconnects/improved trading

this is opinion based on Alex saying that the slot delay was due to having to find the way to do it.

finding a way to do this may help find a way to do that as well or at least give some new angles to kick around.

Inde · Aug 12, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

I'll pop in, the discussion is going fine so please... no more "advice" on what you would do with this thread. I am clearly in here and monitoring the discussion.

Also, I want to point out that it's not the responsibility of the consumer to be grateful that a company provides products or services. I can just as easily call up AT&T to complain, recommend a change, ask questions as I can email NCSoft support or post on a forum with the same effect. I am assured that a voice is listening to me, that sometimes change cannot happen/that it takes a while to happen/that what I'm asking for is out of their capability/or that I have a good suggestion but my recommendation will go nowhere.

I have seen first hand how a publisher can control a game and lead to it's demise *cough* Asheron's Call 2 and Microsoft *cough*. So again, this is a business model shift I believe actionjack is referring to and it's impact on the community.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 12, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

"Sellout" describes every capitalist company or business made by anyone ever. The whole point of a business is that you make profit. Anet's primary goal is, and always has been, to make money. If it wasn't, there would be a lot of hungry programmers. Deriding Anet because they exist to make money is like deriding Wal-mart for not giving away merchandise for free.

Chief · Aug 12, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Loki-

They are trying to get people to buy their game. Without people buying guild wars, they aren't making money anymore. Declining sales means NCSoft might get a bit iffy about continuing the franchise. They are doing to keep their company, and the game, afloat. And everything they have done has been what the community has asked for, that's hardly selling out.

I posted similar information here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief

...Since NCSoft's main revenue is ArenaNet's Guild Wars, I would anticipate when NightFall is released this fall, the development team will continue to concentrate efforts toward this game. If there is any planned holiday events, it will probably occur in NightFall. (NCSoft posted the worst-ever performance results due to the lack of sales and subscription-service renewals of games: City of Heroes, City of Villains, Lineage I & II, and the failure of their latest MMORPG Auto Assault.)

The only anticipated game to generate end of year revenue for NCSoft/ArenaNet will be the release of NightFall. NCSoft invested a lot of money in pay-to-play game Tabula Rasa, which is expected to be release the fall, but the game was a total flop at E3. Additionally, NCSoft North America had a major layoff back in June/July which sent about 70 developers home. This is possibly an indication that NCSoft will continue to loose profits and rely heavily on ArenaNet as its main income source.

Reference: NCsoft Announces 2006 Second Quarter Financial Results

Basically, ArenaNet's internal corporate structure is financially strong and Guild Wars is generating enough revenue to keep dinner on the table for NCSoft and is surviving off their investment return.

Corporate profits continue to diminish because of the lack of sales of current NCSoft created games, lack of subscription renewals and heavy investment in unsuccessful games such as Auto Assault and potentially Tabula Rasa (based on numerous online review articles and E3 reports). NCSoft’s latest game has not even generated a profit and is being given away for FREE with the purchase of Guild Wars Factions Collector’s Edition.

If NCSoft does not hit it strong with the release of their next two subscription based games (October '06 and Spring '07), the financial burdeon will continue to be on ArenaNet's shoulders.

wilebill · Aug 12, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I think the potential is there for abuse, but I think ANet is aware that they have competition. If people don't like the way they pay for the game they will leave and go elsewhere. So don't worry too much. It isn't going to happen.

Overnite · Aug 12, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

I would defin Sell Out as a dev company who care more about Profits and getting people to buy their stuff, more than the enjoyment of players who play their game.

The ONE AND ONLY purpose of a company is MAKING PROFIT (it's basic business knowledge, you can't really discuss with that) You can't say that they have "sold out" because they aren't there for your pleasure, they are there for your money and money alone.

Age · Aug 12, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Chief If NCSoft does not hit it strong with the release of their next two subscription based games (October '06 and Spring '07), the financial burdeon will continue to be on ArenaNet's shoulders.

I see what you are saying is that NCSoft is relying on Arenet to support them.I just wonder if they will take refunds at the Store if you don't need what you bought.

vinegrower · Aug 12, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief

If NCSoft does not hit it strong with the release of their next two subscription based games (October '06 and Spring '07), the financial burdeon will continue to be on ArenaNet's shoulders.

Too an extent. If other branches continue to fail, and ArenaNet continues to profit, more than likely one of two things will happen. Either, 1) the other developer branches will be cut, and NCSoft will shrink for a while to recope their losses. As in, focus on publishing a few sucessful games, and not invest in developing unproven titles. The other option NCSoft will likely face is to sell the publishing rights of Guild Wars to another publisher (lets NOT think EA right now. That just makes me want to cry) and use that money to reorganize the company and take on smaller projects.

There is no way that ArenaNet could hold up continued losses of other developers in the NCSoft family if NC doesn't make major changes and get some other sucessful games.

QuixotesGhost · Aug 13, 2006, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

There is a line between where Devs are gamer-by-heart who want to make us player happy, with the profit as a side reward and means of funding the fun (such good pun), as to Devs who are concerning more about profit margin, monthly earning, shareholder pleasing, who would shape the game not for the more enjoyment of players, but to put more into their pocket. The fun, or the illusion of it, becomes just a marketing lure

What sort of hippy froo-froo devs exist in your little fantasy world?

Quote:

Auction house was wanted long time befoe, in the earlier day of game, and louder than character slot. Same apply to storage. Yet got added faster than anything. Also that still not respond to how I say they are "Shifting". (purchasble character slot was never on the original promise of the game, nor did they say such on their mission statement)

Those things only matter to people that only care about crap like drops. I for one would MUCH rather have the ability to buy an extra character slot than have Anet make it easier to buy stupid imaginary item from Noob A for stupid imaginary gold. Don't assume you speak for everyone or even the majority, or heck even a signifigant minority when you say "We'd rather have an auction house or more storage."

I'D rather have the ability to purchase another character slot.

Pandora's box · Aug 13, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

........
With the online store, the dev gain in more and more power in this. What might they sell next? More Storage slot for $10? Skill Pack to Unlock all your skills for $10? Accesses to a special and easy farming area for $20? 100k of gold for $15? 20 extra attribute points for $5? Will GW be the same as when we first click to play it? What will the future hold?

Thats the big deal with all community games: You can step in for little money, or even for free (neo pets), but if you want to BE someone in the community you need to spend money on a lot of things. Players who don't take part in this can still play the game, but they are low priority since they are not spending much money.